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Thread: Shooter stance revisited.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardhb View Post
    It would be nice to see a few more stances for the older bowler with weak knees, and hips. Myself while not old in the mid-sixties have damaged knees and find that the step forward, is not always as smooth as I'd like it to be. I'm thinking of a more still stance, but it does not feel right?
    I'm 10 years younger than you but have dodgy knees from old injuries. The solution I came up with is totally unorthodox but I'm willing to share with you if it helps. I started bowling using the delivery methods that everyone else does but found the pain from delivering in my knees after a match was excruciating and had to wear a knee brace just to get through a match.

    I take my cues from the world of dance, having spent lots of time watching them from the orchestra pit.

    First, I want you just to try this. Stand with both feet together. Hold your right arm (if you're right handed) straight out in front of you. That's where it should end up after delivering a bowl. Whilst in this position, raise your right leg backwards and hold it for a few seconds. Draw an imaginary line through your hips and one through your shoulders, across your chest. They are pointing in different directions and there is strain in your lower back muscles, and during a delivery there would be torsional force on your left knee. That is essentially how your body ends up after delivering a bowl. I wince when I watch on the telly how this delivery makes the legs go in unnatural angles and think about the state of their knees when they get older.

    Now start the procedure again but this time whilst holding your right arm out, lift your left leg backwards. You will notice that an imaginary line through your hips and another through your shoulders will show they are both pointing in the same direction. There is no strain on your back and your knee has no twisting force as all the weight is straight down through the knee joint onto your toes. Hold this position for as long as you can. Does that feel more comfortable? It should do, and this is how dancers will do it. You'll especially see ice dancers holding this position across the ice.

    To really understand the difference, repeat both methods but this time holding a bowl in your hand.

    I deliver my bowls starting with a left-handed shooter stance then deliver leading with my right foot and right hand. The fear is you are going to bash your ankles but because your body is straight and in line hips to shoulders, your right arm swing, if straight and forward to the side of your body and not across your body, will go past your right ankle with no trouble. It means that if you step on your line, your bowl will always take that line because you can't physically bowl across your body. There is no twisting of the leading leg knee or strain on your lower back from torsional force between hips and shoulders. It might feel strange at first, bowling without twisting up all the time, but you soon get used to it. To ease the ankle fear to begin with, you can start by taking the step forward first, then bend forward, left hand on the top of your right thigh for extra stability and deliver the bowl from a stationary position. Your self-preservation genes will kick in to stop you hitting your ankle.

    I've been bowling like this for 6 years and can bowl all day without tiredness (on grass), no longer need a knee brace, haven't hit my ankle once. I actually modified it slightly two years ago, so that I now take the step first and deliver from a stationary position. I can feel the weight much better. Last year I took both men's singles titles (2 wood and 4 wood) at our club. It's not for everyone and the coaches will tell you off but I recommend it if you have a dodgy knee or hip and if it works, what difference does it make which leg you lead with?
    Last edited by Batman Jazz; 17-01-2018 at 04:54 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Bass, Are you saying your right handed, yet deliver the bowl by stepping forward on your right leg? The same as the hand you're delivering with? It sounds really awkward my friend, but I'd dearly like to see it in action?

    Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardhb View Post
    Bass, Are you saying your right handed, yet deliver the bowl by stepping forward on your right leg? The same as the hand you're delivering with? It sounds really awkward my friend, but I'd dearly like to see it in action?

    Richard.
    My wife bowled with that action for a long time,she was introduced to it by the Aussie bowler Ian Taylor (in 1999) who had a very unusual action,when she had her new hip a few years later she went conventional,and has been successful with both actions. Taylor had a very unusual wind up delivery,anyone who has not seen it should. There is a video on the web.
    Last edited by john haydock; 22-01-2018 at 05:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardhb View Post
    Bass, Are you saying your right handed, yet deliver the bowl by stepping forward on your right leg? The same as the hand you're delivering with? It sounds really awkward my friend, but I'd dearly like to see it in action?

    Richard.
    Yes. It sounds awkward but it really isn't. It's easier to balance when delivering a bowl, therefore less straining of the lower back. thigh, hip and knee joints. All the weight of the body at delivery is transmitted in a straight line down to the floor through your right leg, the lower leg to the knee joint is perpendicular to the ground so no lateral forces are applied to it and your shoulders and hips are square to the line of delivery and the back is not twisted but straight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardhb View Post
    Bass, Are you saying your right handed, yet deliver the bowl by stepping forward on your right leg? The same as the hand you're delivering with? It sounds really awkward my friend, but I'd dearly like to see it in action?

    Richard.
    I've attached a copy of a youtube link to a recent quarter final of the Scottish singles with player who uses delivery as described. Had a great deal of success over the years both indoors and outdoors and was part of the international squad selected last year.

    https://youtu.be/AviiUrCuH-U
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Builder View Post
    I've attached a copy of a youtube link to a recent quarter final of the Scottish singles with player who uses delivery as described. Had a great deal of success over the years both indoors and outdoors and was part of the international squad selected last year.

    https://youtu.be/AviiUrCuH-U
    Jim Byron. Won the Scottish Senior Singles in 2017.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Builder View Post
    I've attached a copy of a youtube link to a recent quarter final of the Scottish singles with player who uses delivery as described. Had a great deal of success over the years both indoors and outdoors and was part of the international squad selected last year.

    https://youtu.be/AviiUrCuH-U
    That's a strange ol' delivery

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Builder View Post
    I've attached a copy of a youtube link to a recent quarter final of the Scottish singles with player who uses delivery as described. Had a great deal of success over the years both indoors and outdoors and was part of the international squad selected last year.

    https://youtu.be/AviiUrCuH-U
    Thank you for that video. I'll try and film one of my own delivery but might be a while as the green doesn't open till spring

    Strangely, he starts with his feet in shooter stance set-up as for a leading left leg, then bring his right leg round in front, which does make it look a bit awkward. My feet are set in the shooter stance as if I was left handed, i.e. right foot in front of left, then I step with the right leg, which is much smoother.

    If you watch the video from 10:40 where you can view the deliveries from the rear, you see the body movement of the unorthodox lead leg versus orthodox. Note how in the unorthodox all the movement is forward and there is no lateral sideways load on the hips or knees. both joints working in the least stressful directional plane. Then the orthodox, the body movement is to the left to allow the bowl to clear the right knee, which is tucked behind the left calf and there is a lateral movement to the left, causing the left hip and left knee to sustain and counter a leftwards lateral load of the body to prevent over-balancing.

    Freeze the video at 29:40 and see how the orthodox delivery causes the legs to be crossed and the body in an unnatural lean, hips and shoulder at an angle relative to the ground, then freeze at 29:59 for the unorthodox and see that the hips and shoulder are horizontal and parallel to the ground and the body is open.

    Comparing these two freeze frames, which do you think looks the most comfortable?
    Last edited by Batman Jazz; 28-01-2018 at 02:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickey View Post
    Some while back there was a discussion about the fors and against regarding the shooter stance.
    I came down on the against side because outdoors on our heavy green I could not make it work.I went back to my both feet together stance and won our singles cup.
    However I am now indoors , I think on the fast indoor carpet it has merit because it has slowed my delivery down somewhat plus I'm getting a good and pretty consistent line with it.So I'm now looking forward to see how well it holds up this winter.-
    When I first saw the Shooter Stance on YouTube I was dubious. I tried it in my living room and it just felt awkward. I have recently gone to a wider bowl and decided to give SS another chance. During some practice ends before the match I immediately noticed an improvement. I was suddenly leaving 3 bowls right on the line, something I was generally not able to do before. In the game all of my shots were improved, both draws and weighted shots.
    I am not a skinny guy. I might even say I am a little bulky. I think by tucking my right leg out of the way I am not having to bring my arm around my hip. It could also be that my increased focus on form could be resulting in greater concentration. We will see but I am honestly quite excited.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachBowls View Post
    When I first saw the Shooter Stance on YouTube I was dubious. I tried it in my living room and it just felt awkward. I have recently gone to a wider bowl and decided to give SS another chance. During some practice ends before the match I immediately noticed an improvement. I was suddenly leaving 3 bowls right on the line, something I was generally not able to do before. In the game all of my shots were improved, both draws and weighted shots.
    I am not a skinny guy. I might even say I am a little bulky. I think by tucking my right leg out of the way I am not having to bring my arm around my hip. It could also be that my increased focus on form could be resulting in greater concentration. We will see but I am honestly quite excited.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I spent a season using the shooter stance and focusing on it for virtually all season, i found the next season it comes naturally now, nail the lines 90% of the time and I can focus on the next important step...the weight! That could take a bit more than one season to master
    You can always out-bowl your bad luck in every game!

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