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Thread: Touchers moving a jack already in the ditch.

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    Default Touchers moving a jack already in the ditch.


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    An unusual situation occurred a couple of weeks ago. There was a toucher on the rink with the jack next to the back ditch (but still on the rink). A subsequent wood pushes the jack and follows it into the ditch. Then a couple of woods later the toucher is pushed into the ditch and displaces the jack. The opposition lead lent over the ditch to move the jack back to its original position which had, of course, been indicated by a white block we use. I told him because the toucher was still live he should leave the displaced jack where it moved to. There then followed several minutes debate as we are joined by the skips at the head. I got my way in the end but, without being unfriendly or impolite my opposite number insisted he was correct to move the jack back to its original place in the ditch, despite, as I've said, it being moved by a live toucher entering the ditch. Perhaps someone would care to confirm that my reading of the situation was correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Adams View Post
    An unusual situation occurred a couple of weeks ago. There was a toucher on the rink with the jack next to the back ditch (but still on the rink). A subsequent wood pushes the jack and follows it into the ditch. Then a couple of woods later the toucher is pushed into the ditch and displaces the jack. The opposition lead lent over the ditch to move the jack back to its original position which had, of course, been indicated by a white block we use. I told him because the toucher was still live he should leave the displaced jack where it moved to. There then followed several minutes debate as we are joined by the skips at the head. I got my way in the end but, without being unfriendly or impolite my opposite number insisted he was correct to move the jack back to its original place in the ditch, despite, as I've said, it being moved by a live toucher entering the ditch. Perhaps someone would care to confirm that my reading of the situation was correct?
    You were correct
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    What was the bowl that took the jack in the ditch - Toucher or non-toucher?
    If it was a non-toucher then it should be removed from the ditch and the jack remains when it is.
    If it is a toucher then both the toucher and jack should remain in the ditch.

    When the toucher is knocked into the ditch and moves the jack it should remain where it is
    The relevant laws are:

    18.3 The position of a jack in the ditch will be validly altered if the jack is moved by :
    18.3.1 a toucher in play

    If a non-toucher is knocked into the ditch and moves the jack it should be replaced to its former position
    The relevant laws are:

    38.5.3 If a jack at rest in the ditch is displaced by a non-toucher entering the ditch, an opponent or the marker must put it back to its former position

    So your action was correct
    It's a simple game really!!!
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    Thanks for your help both. I was fairly confident but have been thinking about it a while so it was bugging me a little. It's surprising how many players, even relatively experienced, don't know the rules.

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    Is he a short mat player, that is a short mat law.

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    Didn’t think you had a ditch in short mat?
    It's a simple game really!!!
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    Law 3 (a) page 7 Shot Mat Bowls Laws of the Sport.

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