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Thread: Running up the green

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riche View Post
    Rink possession laws are almost always broken in any game in my experience. Rarely are players 1 metre behind the mat as soon as their last bowl has come to rest. Skips/3's at the head shouting down length details after the bowl has come to rest. Excited players jumping into the head to see if the last bowl is now lying shot after it's stopped rolling, I could go on. Seriously, watch carefully, any competitive match. It's almost impossible when concentrating to be exactly where you're supposed to be at all times.

    The fact is, these things generally do not annoy or cause any problems (and are not intended to). We have all erred in some way at some point. If the player running up after his bowl is quick and it takes him say, 2 seconds to get behind the head, so what, chill out. Take 2 seconds longer to prepare your delivery. It's a sport, people get emotional, care and try their best. Embrace it as long as it doesn't cause you too many problems.

    Often, those griping about being 1 metre behind the mat/head are on the mat fully prepped to bowl when they shouldn't be on the mat anyway until the previous bowl has come to rest. I've even seen indoors, players bowling their bowl when the previous bowl hasn't come to rest! Ultimately, it doesn't really matter too much.

    If on the other hand things are being done to annoy, frustrate or get under the skin of the opposition then say something. Usually a quick polite word does the trick. If not, a sterner word can be had before escalating.

    A skip standing at a certain length in the middle of the rink when the other team is trying to cast the jack has resulted in me refusing to cast the jack until he moves. The second time he did it, I just stood up, walked off the mat and waited. The third time, my Skip gave him a right talking to. He didn't do it again!

    I like to be able to see the boundary markers when I'm on the mat, dunno why, just do. If I can't, I politely ask people to move. Sometimes people mutter but who cares, I'm being polite. I've seen many others not liking feet visible directly behind the jack, not being able to see the number etc etc. Just move and get on with it. The sport's hard enough without causing unnecessary bad feeling. Yes yes, I know some are out to be pedantic and grumpy but thankfully they're in the minority.

    Before you say anything tho, make sure the rest of your rink/team are adhering to the strict letter of Law 13 otherwise you'll just look silly.
    Spot on Riche, the rules are there for guidance and not to be strictly adhered to. I mean cmon if everyone follow the set out rules to a Tee the game would be boring, unemotional and rather robotic.
    You can always out-bowl your bad luck in every game!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riche View Post
    Rink possession laws are almost always broken in any game in my experience. Rarely are players 1 metre behind the mat as soon as their last bowl has come to rest. Skips/3's at the head shouting down length details after the bowl has come to rest. Excited players jumping into the head to see if the last bowl is now lying shot after it's stopped rolling, I could go on. Seriously, watch carefully, any competitive match. It's almost impossible when concentrating to be exactly where you're supposed to be at all times.

    The fact is, these things generally do not annoy or cause any problems (and are not intended to). We have all erred in some way at some point. If the player running up after his bowl is quick and it takes him say, 2 seconds to get behind the head, so what, chill out. Take 2 seconds longer to prepare your delivery. It's a sport, people get emotional, care and try their best. Embrace it as long as it doesn't cause you too many problems.

    Often, those griping about being 1 metre behind the mat/head are on the mat fully prepped to bowl when they shouldn't be on the mat anyway until the previous bowl has come to rest. I've even seen indoors, players bowling their bowl when the previous bowl hasn't come to rest! Ultimately, it doesn't really matter too much.

    If on the other hand things are being done to annoy, frustrate or get under the skin of the opposition then say something. Usually a quick polite word does the trick. If not, a sterner word can be had before escalating.

    A skip standing at a certain length in the middle of the rink when the other team is trying to cast the jack has resulted in me refusing to cast the jack until he moves. The second time he did it, I just stood up, walked off the mat and waited. The third time, my Skip gave him a right talking to. He didn't do it again!

    I like to be able to see the boundary markers when I'm on the mat, dunno why, just do. If I can't, I politely ask people to move. Sometimes people mutter but who cares, I'm being polite. I've seen many others not liking feet visible directly behind the jack, not being able to see the number etc etc. Just move and get on with it. The sport's hard enough without causing unnecessary bad feeling. Yes yes, I know some are out to be pedantic and grumpy but thankfully they're in the minority.

    Before you say anything tho, make sure the rest of your rink/team are adhering to the strict letter of Law 13 otherwise you'll just look silly.
    Can you tell me where it says i should not be on the mat until the previous bowl comes to rest?
    No Grey Areas

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by john haydock View Post
    Can you tell me where it says i should not be on the mat until the previous bowl comes to rest?
    Because possession of the rink does not transfer to you or your team until the bowl has come to rest, time being allowed to mark a toucher. The mat is part of the rink and strictly you should not be standing on the mat until after the previous bowl has come to rest.

    The Laws state that players NOT in possession of the rink should be behind the head or at least one metre behind the mat. Law 12.1.1 is the one to read.

    When playing I have an effective way of dealing with a player who crowds up to the mat or stands on it before my bowl has come to rest. I stand on the mat and just before my bowl has come to rest take a step backwards. Those of you who know me will realise if I stand on your toes then you are going to be seriously hurt.


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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by astolat View Post
    Because possession of the rink does not transfer to you or your team until the bowl has come to rest, time being allowed to mark a toucher. The mat is part of the rink and strictly you should not be standing on the mat until after the previous bowl has come to rest.

    The Laws state that players NOT in possession of the rink should be behind the head or at least one metre behind the mat. Law 12.1.1 is the one to read.

    When playing I have an effective way of dealing with a player who crowds up to the mat or stands on it before my bowl has come to rest. I stand on the mat and just before my bowl has come to rest take a step backwards. Those of you who know me will realise if I stand on your toes then you are going to be seriously hurt.


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    But it goes on to mention Law 13,so the law i am breaking is law 13,which to come in to operation requires an umpire or player to action, surely until that happens the player has done no wrong as Law 12 carries no penalty
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by john haydock View Post
    But it goes on to mention Law 13,so the law i am breaking is law 13,which to come in to operation requires an umpire or player to action, surely until that happens the player has done no wrong as Law 12 carries no penalty
    If the player transgresses Law 12 he is still in breech of the Laws.

    But there is NO PENALTY unless under Law 13 he annoys, interferes or distracts their opponent but he has still transgressed Law 12.

    Also remember that under Law 13 he can badly annoy his opponent but in the absence of an umpire there is no one who has the authority to impose a penalty.

    Bit like the 30mph limit where I live as we never see a bobby but if I drive at 35mph I am still breaking the Law but there is no penalty unless a copper catches me ( or a camera )


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  6. #16
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    Law 40.1.6 allows the skips to nominate a competent neutral person, in the absence of an umpire.
    No Grey Areas

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by john haydock View Post
    But it goes on to mention Law 13,so the law i am breaking is law 13,which to come in to operation requires an umpire or player to action, surely until that happens the player has done no wrong as Law 12 carries no penalty
    And we come full circle cos as Umpy has pointed out, the same applies if I'm 2 yards up the green when my bowl comes to rest, or if I'm running up the green and not past the head as it finishes.

    All I'm saying is, if a player pulls someone up about possession, expect the backlash and make sure you and your team mates are perfect. Thankfully, the vast majority of players allow an element of grace as long as it isn't either done deliberately or designed to annoy.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by john haydock View Post
    Law 40.1.6 allows the skips to nominate a competent neutral person, in the absence of an umpire.
    I was well aware of 40.1.6 but it requires the skips to choose the person. This assumes agreement between the skips on the neutral person. If skip A is clearly trying to get a competent person appointed to enforce rink possession penalty against his team how likely is it that skip B will agree with his choice of person. Stalemate.

    Only blue areas.


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  9. #19
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    Ideally, of course, the skips should probably agree on who was to act as umpire before the game started and any decision required - it should then be much easier to get joint acceptance of an individual.

    One of the problems with the laws is that they may be clear in and of themseves, but do not follow through completely - nor, probably, could they be expected to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astolat View Post
    I was well aware of 40.1.6 but it requires the skips to choose the person. This assumes agreement between the skips on the neutral person. If skip A is clearly trying to get a competent person appointed to enforce rink possession penalty against his team how likely is it that skip B will agree with his choice of person. Stalemate.

    Only blue areas.


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    In which case invite skip B to choose who he wants,failing which it is a good case to report to controlling body for a decision,The offending teams skip is clearly not operating within the spirit of sportsmanship, and the conditions of play should contain reference to the emergency and disputes committee,
    Last edited by john haydock; 11-07-2019 at 08:56 PM.
    No Grey Areas

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