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Thread: Bendiness

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by corptaxman View Post
    For me, whether in golf or in bowls, the shoulder is just a point on the line I have visualised the ball/bowl taking to the target I have set, and is the highest point of the trajectory, almost always situated after the bowl starts to turn. Only a word 'though.
    Okay but when we coach bowls the shoulder is a very important factor in getting players to be able to bowl on the correct line,so in the coaching world it is more than just a word.
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    That can be true - in my 'world' the shoulder is not on my aiming 'line' so it is of less relevance to me. Having visualised the entire line/arc to the target, I then look along the initial 'straight' part, not at 'my' shoulder which would end up being too tight. It's not how I was taught when I took up bowling, but works for me (mostly!).

    If my bowl comes off my visualised delivery arc/line on a good green it's then generally either a problem of the visualization or delivery. It means I tend to re-visualize on each shot, even if nothing else has changed, which could introduce inconsistencies, but the mind compensates for that.

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    There is no consistent coaching of bowls across the board and that is troublesome. There is no accepted 'norm' and many of the methods taught are at best, incorrect. When will the BDA release a coaching manual and videos that new bowlers can refer to and practice? Each club coach invents their own strategy and it's all a bit hit or miss. A big problem for the sport in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riche View Post
    There is no consistent coaching of bowls across the board and that is troublesome. There is no accepted 'norm' and many of the methods taught are at best, incorrect. When will the BDA release a coaching manual and videos that new bowlers can refer to and practice? Each club coach invents their own strategy and it's all a bit hit or miss. A big problem for the sport in my opinion.
    I think that is a bit unfair to many of us that go back a lot further than the BDA, we belonged to the EBCS and there is a hanbook with many practice exercises and info for bowlers,are methods are consistent ,Which is why i pointed out about the shoulder of the green to a certain gentlemen,who as probably confused many, by offering advice recentlly If you think the methods taught are incorrect you are obviously speaking from experience as a a coach yourself,.One of the problems with the game is too many players trying to help new bowlers with incorrect info,especially on the laws of the game,they all mean well but do a lot of harm.When we run a coaching course at my club we run for 2hours for 6weeks we cover everything from Rolling jacks - to a session on measuring exercises using an experienced umpire,so please do not quote accross the board, i coach for on average 20 hours a month for 12 months.autistic disabled and able bodied.we have manuals and videos,how many clubs do you belong too and how have you gained this knowledge of the coaching world
    Last edited by john haydock; 23-07-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by john haydock View Post
    I think that is a bit unfair to many of us that go back a lot further than the BDA, we belonged to the EBCS and there is a hanbook with many practice exercises and info for bowlers,are methods are consistent ,Which is why i pointed out about the shoulder of the green to a certain gentlemen,who as probably confused many, by offering advice recentlly If you think the methods taught are incorrect you are obviously speaking from experience as a a coach yourself,.One of the problems with the game is too many players trying to help new bowlers with incorrect info,especially on the laws of the game,they all mean well but do a lot of harm.When we run a coaching course at my club we run for 2hours for 6weeks we cover everything from Rolling jacks - to a session on measuring exercises using an experienced umpire,so please do not quote accross the board, i coach for on average 20 hours a month for 12 months.autistic disabled and able bodied.we have manuals and videos,how many clubs do you belong too and how have you gained this knowledge of the coaching world
    In that case can you point me in the direction of an accredited coaching video or manual please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riche View Post
    In that case can you point me in the direction of an accredited coaching video or manual please?
    Hi Riche, there are many available on the internet,just put in bowls coaching videos,not sure if E.B.C.S SELL TO NON MEMBERS. THERE ARE SOME VERY GOOD ONES ON U TUBE..i particularly like the ones by Nev Rhoeder.The EBUA have some on measuring techniques too.will get you more info soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by john haydock View Post
    Hi Riche, there are many available on the internet,just put in bowls coaching videos,not sure if E.B.C.S SELL TO NON MEMBERS. THERE ARE SOME VERY GOOD ONES ON U TUBE..i particularly like the ones by Nev Rhoeder.The EBUA have some on measuring techniques too.will get you more info soon
    Hi John, you're kinda proving my point. These are not 'accredited' (World Bowls, BE, EIBA, BDA) coaching manuals or videos, they're just random people giving their ideas on what they believe is right. I could record a video and post it on You Tube. Who are ECBS? I can't find them on the internet.

    I'm just a player who wants some advanced bowls coaching. Where in a coaching manual does the BDA (or any other accredited coaching body) tell me to bowl to the shoulder? As far as I know, the BDA receive over 1m pa from Sport England and don't even produce a manual or videos for coaches or players? I've spoken to many different accredited coaches who pretty much all say something different about how to aim (point level with jack, spot on bank, shoulder, 5 yards in front of me, 1 yard in front of me, visualise the line and don't aim etc etc). I don't want some guys opinion, I want proven, accepted, tried and tested, (hopefully scientifically analysed), information. Where do I get that?

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    I'm sure John can answer for himself, but EBCS was the English Bowls Coaches Society . I downloaded their manual some time ago after i started bowling - it can be found here:

    https://www.hugofox.com/shared/attac...c10ee273%2Epdf

    There was a move by BDA for it and ECBS to work together, but I think it failed.

    I'm just 'some guy' in this respect (with no coaching qualifications), but I doubt that you will find one single aiming (or stance etc) method that is advocated, as different things work for different people. At the end of the day, find one of the methods that works for you, after experimenting with them, and use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by corptaxman View Post
    I'm sure John can answer for himself, but EBCS was the English Bowls Coaches Society . I downloaded their manual some time ago after i started bowling - it can be found here:

    https://www.hugofox.com/shared/attac...c10ee273%2Epdf

    There was a move by BDA for it and ECBS to work together, but I think it failed.

    I'm just 'some guy' in this respect (with no coaching qualifications), but I doubt that you will find one single aiming (or stance etc) method that is advocated, as different things work for different people. At the end of the day, find one of the methods that works for you, after experimenting with them, and use it.
    Thanks for this CTM, I couldn't find it and it's interesting. Are all club coaches affiliated to this? Is it BE or EIBA affiliated or acknowledged? Where does the BDA fit into it or is it totally separate? I see they have a manual and videos for but what is their recognition within the sport as a whole? How do I know, as a bowler of only 5 years, what their credentials are? What makes these any better than the YouTube efforts of others?

    I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm merely trying to work out how the hell someone like me gets proper, professional (as much as possible), accredited advice. I'm ok, I've found that skill without any help from the sport or governing bodies, but others need help too.

    I don't agree with the "different things work for different people" idea. Everyone should start at the same point and be taught the basics (grip, balance, stance, approach etc etc). Only then should they adapt and alter as they become more experienced. Think any other sport, tennis, golf, etc etc. Almost all of the top bowlers share similar characteristics in their deliveries, they may look different but they aren't massively. They share very similar commonalities. There are always players that are an exception, but they're rare.

    A simple question I was asked early on by the coach I eventually went with: "At what point during your delivery should your elbow be straight?"

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    Not questions I can answer, I'm afraid. Others here may be able to.

    When I started, with several other newcomers to the sport, my club's coaches (only Level 1 - we are a small club!) gave a series of basic lessons on most aspects of the game - although not to any great depth etc. These did teach what I think is a fairly standard approach that I soon realised, mostly down to my body shape and idiosyncrasies, did not entirely work for me - so, I went off on Youtube, and some other internet sites ,plus books to see what others were saying. I must admit that I wasn't too concerned about qualifications etc, simply to get an idea of possibilities that I then went on to try. Some worked, others did not.

    Like John, I liked the Nev Rodda videos and adopted his 'shooter stance' as it solved a couple of my issues (especially inward-protuding elbows that could hit my side with a more convenional stance); I also liked the series of videos made by David Bryant and Tony Alcock, but also looked at many more.

    If you have already got the basics and want advanced coaching, you may have to search and pay for one. You can then check out their credentials and whether they suit you. Last year, my club arranged for a coach to come and give a half-day group lessson at very modest cost - that was very useful, as it went beyond the physical aspects to simple tactics, shot choice etc.

    If you want a far more detailed, analytical type manual you could try this one:

    http://www.valebowlingclub.co.uk/Doc...onCoaching.pdf
    Last edited by corptaxman; 25-07-2019 at 11:15 AM.

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