Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: Wedging an opponent's bowl.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    410
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4/0
    Given: 5/0

    Default Wedging an opponent's bowl.


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    At the completion of an end, if 30 seconds had not been called for, is it appropriate to wedge an opponent's bowl to stop it falling?
    National Ump

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    suffolk
    Posts
    2,297
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 66/18
    Given: 2/2

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    ,
    Quote Originally Posted by Old_Pilot View Post
    At the completion of an end, if 30 seconds had not been called for, is it appropriate to wedge an opponent's bowl to stop it falling?
    Law 23.6.1 should cover that.after 30 secs if asked, for either opponent can wedge a bowl likely to fall, so if not asked for the same thing applies.
    No Grey Areas

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    410
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4/0
    Given: 5/0

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by john haydock View Post
    , Law 23.6.1 should cover that.after 30 secs if asked, for either opponent can wedge a bowl likely to fall, so if not asked for the same thing applies.
    Thanks John, got that one but wasn't sure 'opponent' applied to both players eg in singles.
    National Ump

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    583
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 37/3
    Given: 0/1

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    John's right on the technical side; 23.6.1 mentions 'either opponent' - ie either of the two players in singles.

    Whether it's 'appropriate' (as originally asked), is likley to depend on the circumstances. That law includes the word 'can' which under Convention 2 of the Laws means that it is optional and not obligatory to do so - if you think it might fall out, you presumably wouldn't, but if it might fall in, then you presumably would!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    89
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 7/9
    Given: 0/2

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by corptaxman View Post
    John's right on the technical side; 23.6.1 mentions 'either opponent' - ie either of the two players in singles.

    Whether it's 'appropriate' (as originally asked), is likley to depend on the circumstances. That law includes the word 'can' which under Convention 2 of the Laws means that it is optional and not obligatory to do so - if you think it might fall out, you presumably wouldn't, but if it might fall in, then you presumably would!
    Yeah, my understanding is this. Either can ask for the 30 secs but if nobody asks, it can be wedged immediately. I think it also applies to any bowl. So, in a game of singles, say the 3rd bowl of the 8 is sat at a funny angle (might fall in/out), the last bowl is bowled and 30 secs is asked for, it doesn't just apply to the last bowl played, it's any of the bowls. (I saw Greg Harlow ask for this indoors at the worlds and was given the 30 secs).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    583
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 37/3
    Given: 0/1

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Yes, the laws in this respect refer to 'a bowl' and do not restrict the ability to secure it to the last bowl played. The '30 sec rule' provided for in 23.1/2 only relates to the last bowl played, and commences one it has come to rest; after that - or if not asked for - the end has finished and determining the number of shots can start - and 23.6 can also then start to be used.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    suffolk
    Posts
    2,297
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 66/18
    Given: 2/2

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Riche View Post
    Yeah, my understanding is this. Either can ask for the 30 secs but if nobody asks, it can be wedged immediately. I think it also applies to any bowl. So, in a game of singles, say the 3rd bowl of the 8 is sat at a funny angle (might fall in/out), the last bowl is bowled and 30 secs is asked for, it doesn't just apply to the last bowl played, it's any of the bowls. (I saw Greg Harlow ask for this indoors at the worlds and was given the 30 secs).
    Markers and Umpires are taught to start timing immediately a bowl likely to fall ,once the last bowl has come to rest. So when the request is made he can tell the player how many seconds are left. I had many occasions marking singles when the player reached the head after the last bowl came to rest and then decided to ask for 30 secs,Certainly in the case of Greg ,they will know the elapsed time before the request.
    No Grey Areas

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    583
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 37/3
    Given: 0/1

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    A surprising number of players seem to think that the 30 secs period starts from when they ask for it, which is not the case.

    On a strict wording, I would say that law 23.1 allows a claim for 30 secs delay (of starting the shot-decision process) to be made whether or not at that point a ball is 'likely to fall'; those words only really come into play in law 23.6 once the 30 sec period has ended (if called for).

    At my lowly level, I don't think I've ever seen a marker start a provisional 30 sec timing, 'just in case'. I tend to wear a chronograph watch (or 'diver' with bezel) when playing bowls, and should perhaps use it more if marking, or if the marker does not seem to be doing so as a matter of course!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    suffolk
    Posts
    2,297
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 66/18
    Given: 2/2

    Default Timing


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    My remark was concerning qualified officials,just because they do not start looking at a watch does not mean they are not aware of the seconds ticking away,Without being unkind the average marker in games is there to keep score and Mark touchers ( Often at the wrong time) they are an important part of the club, The last time I conducted a course for markers I think there was about 10 , these are the members who want to do more than just play, not everyone who plays wants to be more involved, and that is the same in all sports, bowls however does need more umpires, the number has declined rapidly in the last few years,
    No Grey Areas

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    583
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 37/3
    Given: 0/1

    Default


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Accepted, John - I'm sure an experienced marker/umpire will have a reasonable 'feel' for the timings. We have to accept that volunteer members will not operate to the same standard - without them, however, there would be problems in operating sucessfully.

    Even as a small club, we had two qualified coaches - both of whom have given up, as they were required to take more courses on matters that really did not apply at our club: eg we haven't seen a child needing safeguarding in many years! The one-size-fits-all approach in these areas really doesn't work and often works to the majority of the games' participants' disadvantage, especially at the very local/amateur level of the game.

    Political correctness - in all areas of our life - needs to be reined in. Elimination of all risk will never be feasible, however much you throw at it, and even substantial elimination poses considerable issues - where to draw the line?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •